Tonight's article looks at the astronomy of Sagittarius, which points to the center of our galaxy and the gravitational oddity that is drawing the Milky Way and 100,000 other galaxies toward it.
Thank you for the donation to my reading and library — I will look for it.
So what work has Greer done on planets before they were discovered, going back centuries?
Pluto, Eris, Chiron, Uranus and Neptune were all involved in major historical developments before they were seen and known about, though the discovery era is important in the delineation. We also get some of the best information about planets pre-discovery when we go back and look at events along the cycle, through long phases of history.
There are countless examples, many of them documented by Rick Tarnas in Cosmos and Psyche, though he does not touch Chiron or Eris and in my experience is just not interested, no matter how good are the examples (he is concerned about being seen as on the fringe).
The concept of “dwarf planet” is not scientifically relevant. It is merely a convenient category. All dwarf planets have other actual categories, such as KBO, SDO, cubewano, plutino, asteroid, etc. These are generally based on distinctive orbital elements, rather than merely on the size (elements include the shape of the orbit, which other orbits it crosses, duration of the orbit, inclination of the orbit, etc.).
Neptune does not fully meet the qualification for “planet” because it has not “cleared its own path” (necessary under the new definition) — there are many Neptune-crossers, including Pluto. But it makes sense to imagine Neptune as “the outermost planet.” That certainly fits our era: fantasy as the final frontier, disregard of anything objective, belief = truth and so on. Neptune as the “last planet” goes well with a thousand different series on Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, Showtime and so on.
Pluto’s designation as a dwarf planet was not scientific in the sense of being based on a clear concept or on verifiable and relevant data. It is merely about size. It was a political maneuver, orchestrated by one actor and endorsed by a very small minority of astronomers when there was no longer a quorum at the summer 2007 IAU convention in Praag.
It was largely done to foster the business (meaning publishing) interests of Eris discoverer Mike Brown. In his own words, he “killed Pluto,” giving him an extra place in history. Brown at least is friendly to astrologers. Most of the very top astronomers are though. It is the mid-grade ones who are hostile and call us frauds (deGrasse and others).
If this is relevant in astrology, we would need to work out that delineation. Meanwhile, the designation was made before these photos were available.
And neither astronomy nor astrology has much to say about Pluto/Charon being a system of six points orbiting one common barycenter. None of them is a moon. They all orbit the same center of gravity. No other Kuiper belt object has this property. The most we have are binaries (most of them are).
Mostly the notion of a “dwarf planet" fosters confusion and obscures actual research into the cycle of the body; note all the confusion about Ceres, which has been recategorized numerous times (asteroid, comet, planet, planetoid, dwarf planet). I’ve never even heard of a presentation on Ceres at an astrology conference (there must have been one or more but I’ve never seen one). Its mythology also evolves rapidly over time and political situations where she was held as a goddess.
Minor planet people don’t take it that seriously either — though it comprises one-third the mass of the main asteroid belt and is probably a kind of proto-planet.
Note that Ceres represents “Mother Earth” or Gaia, is associated with grief of mothers for their lost children, with food, with emotional relationships that are associated with food, advocacy of those who are locked out of power “the plebes”) — all the things that our society avoided, evades, eludes.
A few things to think about!
Thank you again for the book and your note.
efc
On Nov 23, 2022, at 7:44 PM, Danius <danius@> wrote:
Hi Eric,
Happy Thanksgiving.
I have sent you a book to your post office box. It is John Michael Greer’s “The Twilight of Pluto”. You have been speaking a lot about Pluto entering Aquarius recently and I thought you should be aware of this perspective. In the book, John notes how the planetary influences became manifest on earth once the planets were discovered, and he argues that since Pluto was downgraded to a dwarf planet in 2006, its influence should wane over one Saturn cycle and by 2036 it should be viewed like other dwarf planets in our solar system (e.g. Ceres), rather than something similar to the planets. Since you look at the centaurs, dwarf planets, and asteroids, I thought this perspective is something you would appreciate and you could be someone who could asses the impact of dwarf planets relevant to the major planets that affect us. My hope is that, with Pluto entering Aquarius, things won’t be as dire as they seem.
I became aware of John Michael Greer through your site (there was a reference to his site in a COVID 19 News thread sometime in 2021 I think), so I think this is useful to share.
The question is not about whether a “flat earth” can exist in some other dimension; under quantum physics, every possibility must be true somewhere in the universe. Somewhere we are having this conversation over frozen margaritas overlooking a shining green ocean and pink sky.
The issue is whether the “flat earth” is supported by actual scientific data, which is the claim with nothing to show for it, and whether the “spherical earth” is entirely a fraud, unprovable and impossible to demonstrate. And further, we have most of the people who did the best work on deconstructing the failure of science on the virus asserting that they have scientific backing of their flat earth position, leaving the virus issue open to attack.
This, in turn, is crucial because the only way to get people to agree to the vaccine passport (which would be necessary for travel and commerce) is to have them believe that viruses are a threat. The no-virus position has taken that apart and found that there is nothing. And this is progress too important to squander on this kind of irrelevant bullshit.
The spherical earth works for all practical purposes of travel, navigation, timekeeping, commerce and growing food. They cannot point to one flaw, but they are saying there is no proof and it’s all a lie — and also trust all this good work we have done on Rockefeller medicine and viruses.
Following me here?
efc
On Nov 24, 2022, at 10:11 AM, Olga Kuchukov <olya.olga> wrote:
Hi Eric,
Thank you for sharing this lovely piece. I wrote a paper on Kepler in college. It focused on art, creative inspiration and science and how naturally linked the soft and hard arts/practices/concepts/thought patterns/ideas were before reductionism.
Perhaps when they threw religion out of science they mistakenly picked up the whole bathtub, baby and all. Kepler considered his inspiration divine. Many flat earthers today also cling to religion or a spirituality that positions one creator at the center.
I don’t know enough about each flat earther to extrapolate. Often I fall back on my facility with the unknown, unknowable, inexplicable, mysterious, variegated, vast and multiplicitous. I’m cool with it. Many are not, however, and need a road map. I’m more comfortable with conceptual multiple realities existing simultaneously. Those that figure their way through to a conceptual glimpse of this also realize that each human brain is capable of choosing a reality to operate in. All with thoughts and intentions.
I exist in a place where flat earth concepts and spherical earth concepts exist simultaneously. To call that a capitulation is reductionistic and falling into a mental trap set by established convention that requires unipolar adherence to concept. Which shifts, sometimes slowly, as experienced by Kepler and Galileo and Teilhard de Chardin; or quickly, as being experienced by pretty much everyone currently. The unmooring is precarious. People look for tethers.
Thank you and happy day of celebration and eating, wherever you find yourself. Cheers!
One wants to use the example of the failure of virology as a way to get science back on track of the scientific method and recognize the importance of valid experimental data.
You might say that this side of the discussion is faithful to the history of science and its proper use to find explanations to experiences in nature that are not merely superstitions or religious dogma.
The other wants to take the example of virology and tear down all of science as a huge scam. That they have chosen physics is like storming the mountain, mostly because they demonstrably don’t know and don’t care about it.
They have natural comrades in the pre-existing Flat Earth scene, most of whom seem to be against vaccines and really do believe that “everything is a lie.” Black Pill territory.
efc
On Nov 24, 2022, at 8:50 AM, Eric F. Coppolino, Editor <efc@planetwaves.net> wrote:
Good morning…I watched the rest of it.
The only science in the doc is: someone “in the community” buys a $20,000 gyroscope and tests it and the result is: get ready: they detect 15 degrees of movement per hour, consistent with the rotation of the Earth.
The California empty canal laser experiment and shore-to-ship line of sight experiment are both inconclusive. These are afterthoughts, in the last 10 minutes.
The rest of it is “we are popular so we are right,” a half-baked romance between Mark Sargent and Patricia Steer, and FE people accusing one another of being assets, shills, spies, plants and shrubs.
PatriCIA is a clue and she is allegedly a honeypot who Steers men the wrong way.
Yes this is inherent in the entire culture — figuring out who the spooks are. Because it is all a conspiracy theory, which they admit, it’s rather paranoid. The whole mental environment is permeated by concerns about infiltration.
They admit that nobody who qualifies as a scientist agrees with their position; this is because they were all brainwashed during their education and cannot see past their own bias.
Copernicus, Sir Isaac, Kepler, or Galileo’s names are never mentioned; but someone says that the Jupiter and its moons look flat, when seen in a telescope. It’s genius-level shit.
They visit the NASA museum in Houston (“entering enemy territory”), which is apparently as dismal as the Air & Space Museum in Washington, which is still playing a stretched-out video tape of Ronald Reagan announcing the Space Shuttle program (or was when I visited around 2011 or so).
Mark Sargent’s prior claim to fame was being world digital pinball champion. By the way, digital pinballs are also flat.
I know Cindy passed around a bitchute copy. (It is in Amazon for four bucks.) I’ll capture the audio to listen for actualities and in case anyone wants to listen.
It’s worth a laugh and there is some useful information there, but no “flat” planet anywhere to be found. It’s all about their personalities, well done as such.
Flat Earth advocates indeed cannot point to a single flaw with the spherical model, something regarding observable phenomena which contradicts it, while numerous phenomena contradict any sort of flat model, be it fixed, moving in a straight line, or rotating. They have not been able to explain any of those contradictions, and instead of explaining they resort to personal attacks and insults, comparing astronomy to virology because "it's all established science."
"Second, Sagittarius includes a weird thing called the Great Attractor. It is said to be a vast pool of subatomic particles."
~~~
In one Volume of The Trilogy: Handbook For The New Paradigm, it states that Earth will be passing through a donut-shaped (torus) energy field composed of high-energy particles.
Hi Danius,
Thank you for the donation to my reading and library — I will look for it.
So what work has Greer done on planets before they were discovered, going back centuries?
Pluto, Eris, Chiron, Uranus and Neptune were all involved in major historical developments before they were seen and known about, though the discovery era is important in the delineation. We also get some of the best information about planets pre-discovery when we go back and look at events along the cycle, through long phases of history.
There are countless examples, many of them documented by Rick Tarnas in Cosmos and Psyche, though he does not touch Chiron or Eris and in my experience is just not interested, no matter how good are the examples (he is concerned about being seen as on the fringe).
The concept of “dwarf planet” is not scientifically relevant. It is merely a convenient category. All dwarf planets have other actual categories, such as KBO, SDO, cubewano, plutino, asteroid, etc. These are generally based on distinctive orbital elements, rather than merely on the size (elements include the shape of the orbit, which other orbits it crosses, duration of the orbit, inclination of the orbit, etc.).
Neptune does not fully meet the qualification for “planet” because it has not “cleared its own path” (necessary under the new definition) — there are many Neptune-crossers, including Pluto. But it makes sense to imagine Neptune as “the outermost planet.” That certainly fits our era: fantasy as the final frontier, disregard of anything objective, belief = truth and so on. Neptune as the “last planet” goes well with a thousand different series on Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, Showtime and so on.
http://www.planetwavesweekly.com/resources/pluto_astrology.html
Pluto’s designation as a dwarf planet was not scientific in the sense of being based on a clear concept or on verifiable and relevant data. It is merely about size. It was a political maneuver, orchestrated by one actor and endorsed by a very small minority of astronomers when there was no longer a quorum at the summer 2007 IAU convention in Praag.
It was largely done to foster the business (meaning publishing) interests of Eris discoverer Mike Brown. In his own words, he “killed Pluto,” giving him an extra place in history. Brown at least is friendly to astrologers. Most of the very top astronomers are though. It is the mid-grade ones who are hostile and call us frauds (deGrasse and others).
If this is relevant in astrology, we would need to work out that delineation. Meanwhile, the designation was made before these photos were available.
http://www.planetwavesweekly.com/resources/pluto_astrology.html
And neither astronomy nor astrology has much to say about Pluto/Charon being a system of six points orbiting one common barycenter. None of them is a moon. They all orbit the same center of gravity. No other Kuiper belt object has this property. The most we have are binaries (most of them are).
Mostly the notion of a “dwarf planet" fosters confusion and obscures actual research into the cycle of the body; note all the confusion about Ceres, which has been recategorized numerous times (asteroid, comet, planet, planetoid, dwarf planet). I’ve never even heard of a presentation on Ceres at an astrology conference (there must have been one or more but I’ve never seen one). Its mythology also evolves rapidly over time and political situations where she was held as a goddess.
Minor planet people don’t take it that seriously either — though it comprises one-third the mass of the main asteroid belt and is probably a kind of proto-planet.
Note that Ceres represents “Mother Earth” or Gaia, is associated with grief of mothers for their lost children, with food, with emotional relationships that are associated with food, advocacy of those who are locked out of power “the plebes”) — all the things that our society avoided, evades, eludes.
A few things to think about!
Thank you again for the book and your note.
efc
On Nov 23, 2022, at 7:44 PM, Danius <danius@> wrote:
Hi Eric,
Happy Thanksgiving.
I have sent you a book to your post office box. It is John Michael Greer’s “The Twilight of Pluto”. You have been speaking a lot about Pluto entering Aquarius recently and I thought you should be aware of this perspective. In the book, John notes how the planetary influences became manifest on earth once the planets were discovered, and he argues that since Pluto was downgraded to a dwarf planet in 2006, its influence should wane over one Saturn cycle and by 2036 it should be viewed like other dwarf planets in our solar system (e.g. Ceres), rather than something similar to the planets. Since you look at the centaurs, dwarf planets, and asteroids, I thought this perspective is something you would appreciate and you could be someone who could asses the impact of dwarf planets relevant to the major planets that affect us. My hope is that, with Pluto entering Aquarius, things won’t be as dire as they seem.
I became aware of John Michael Greer through your site (there was a reference to his site in a COVID 19 News thread sometime in 2021 I think), so I think this is useful to share.
Thanks for all of the work that you do.
Danius
Hi Olga,
The question is not about whether a “flat earth” can exist in some other dimension; under quantum physics, every possibility must be true somewhere in the universe. Somewhere we are having this conversation over frozen margaritas overlooking a shining green ocean and pink sky.
The issue is whether the “flat earth” is supported by actual scientific data, which is the claim with nothing to show for it, and whether the “spherical earth” is entirely a fraud, unprovable and impossible to demonstrate. And further, we have most of the people who did the best work on deconstructing the failure of science on the virus asserting that they have scientific backing of their flat earth position, leaving the virus issue open to attack.
This, in turn, is crucial because the only way to get people to agree to the vaccine passport (which would be necessary for travel and commerce) is to have them believe that viruses are a threat. The no-virus position has taken that apart and found that there is nothing. And this is progress too important to squander on this kind of irrelevant bullshit.
The spherical earth works for all practical purposes of travel, navigation, timekeeping, commerce and growing food. They cannot point to one flaw, but they are saying there is no proof and it’s all a lie — and also trust all this good work we have done on Rockefeller medicine and viruses.
Following me here?
efc
On Nov 24, 2022, at 10:11 AM, Olga Kuchukov <olya.olga> wrote:
Hi Eric,
Thank you for sharing this lovely piece. I wrote a paper on Kepler in college. It focused on art, creative inspiration and science and how naturally linked the soft and hard arts/practices/concepts/thought patterns/ideas were before reductionism.
Perhaps when they threw religion out of science they mistakenly picked up the whole bathtub, baby and all. Kepler considered his inspiration divine. Many flat earthers today also cling to religion or a spirituality that positions one creator at the center.
I don’t know enough about each flat earther to extrapolate. Often I fall back on my facility with the unknown, unknowable, inexplicable, mysterious, variegated, vast and multiplicitous. I’m cool with it. Many are not, however, and need a road map. I’m more comfortable with conceptual multiple realities existing simultaneously. Those that figure their way through to a conceptual glimpse of this also realize that each human brain is capable of choosing a reality to operate in. All with thoughts and intentions.
I exist in a place where flat earth concepts and spherical earth concepts exist simultaneously. To call that a capitulation is reductionistic and falling into a mental trap set by established convention that requires unipolar adherence to concept. Which shifts, sometimes slowly, as experienced by Kepler and Galileo and Teilhard de Chardin; or quickly, as being experienced by pretty much everyone currently. The unmooring is precarious. People look for tethers.
Thank you and happy day of celebration and eating, wherever you find yourself. Cheers!
Olga
From an email discussion....
__________
Here is part two.
In the “no virus” camp, there are two positions.
One wants to use the example of the failure of virology as a way to get science back on track of the scientific method and recognize the importance of valid experimental data.
You might say that this side of the discussion is faithful to the history of science and its proper use to find explanations to experiences in nature that are not merely superstitions or religious dogma.
The other wants to take the example of virology and tear down all of science as a huge scam. That they have chosen physics is like storming the mountain, mostly because they demonstrably don’t know and don’t care about it.
They have natural comrades in the pre-existing Flat Earth scene, most of whom seem to be against vaccines and really do believe that “everything is a lie.” Black Pill territory.
efc
On Nov 24, 2022, at 8:50 AM, Eric F. Coppolino, Editor <efc@planetwaves.net> wrote:
Good morning…I watched the rest of it.
The only science in the doc is: someone “in the community” buys a $20,000 gyroscope and tests it and the result is: get ready: they detect 15 degrees of movement per hour, consistent with the rotation of the Earth.
The California empty canal laser experiment and shore-to-ship line of sight experiment are both inconclusive. These are afterthoughts, in the last 10 minutes.
The rest of it is “we are popular so we are right,” a half-baked romance between Mark Sargent and Patricia Steer, and FE people accusing one another of being assets, shills, spies, plants and shrubs.
PatriCIA is a clue and she is allegedly a honeypot who Steers men the wrong way.
Yes this is inherent in the entire culture — figuring out who the spooks are. Because it is all a conspiracy theory, which they admit, it’s rather paranoid. The whole mental environment is permeated by concerns about infiltration.
They admit that nobody who qualifies as a scientist agrees with their position; this is because they were all brainwashed during their education and cannot see past their own bias.
Copernicus, Sir Isaac, Kepler, or Galileo’s names are never mentioned; but someone says that the Jupiter and its moons look flat, when seen in a telescope. It’s genius-level shit.
They visit the NASA museum in Houston (“entering enemy territory”), which is apparently as dismal as the Air & Space Museum in Washington, which is still playing a stretched-out video tape of Ronald Reagan announcing the Space Shuttle program (or was when I visited around 2011 or so).
Mark Sargent’s prior claim to fame was being world digital pinball champion. By the way, digital pinballs are also flat.
I know Cindy passed around a bitchute copy. (It is in Amazon for four bucks.) I’ll capture the audio to listen for actualities and in case anyone wants to listen.
It’s worth a laugh and there is some useful information there, but no “flat” planet anywhere to be found. It’s all about their personalities, well done as such.
efc
"It’s impressive and I think humorous what “occultists” figure out long before science gets there."
~~~
I agree !
OF "FAUCISM" MICE,
& REAL MEN & REAL WOMEN
& GODFATHER'S ADVICE.
(Mickey Z. ain't no mouse, neither)
THESE WORKERS ARE JUST LIKE YOU ALL STALWARD !
AIDs & ITS "long ago" INK/Inc.
Are Still With US.
[Their] underlying & constant Methodologies of Covid, began in the stillbirth of AIDS.
Take A Listen...
Lend An Ear...
Thank you.
~~~
Recommendation via The Always Fabulous Jon Rappoport, about Sister Fabulous
https://open.substack.com/pub/mickeyz/p/post-woke-57-celia-farber-on-covid?r=11r0co&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
*****
"Does one child
Know the secret
And can say it..."
~ Jon Anderson (YES)
{Excerpted from...
The Ancient:
Giants Under The Sun,
Movement III, from
Tales From Topographic Oceans}
*****
"child" hear, I quote, is of the highest Notation, & not diminutive.
Jesus said, "Lest you be as a child, you can in no way enter, The Kingdom of Heaven."
Thank You, Jon A., Jon R., Jon P. & Celia, & Mickey Z.
WE ALL THANK YOU,
ETERNALLY,
FOR ALL YOUR STELLAR WORKS.
Amen.
Flat Earth advocates indeed cannot point to a single flaw with the spherical model, something regarding observable phenomena which contradicts it, while numerous phenomena contradict any sort of flat model, be it fixed, moving in a straight line, or rotating. They have not been able to explain any of those contradictions, and instead of explaining they resort to personal attacks and insults, comparing astronomy to virology because "it's all established science."
"Life Is A Mystery...
Everyone Must Stand Alone"
~ Madonna
https://youtu.be/Qxw6lsDM0Co
I really like your descriptions of the dimensionless internet cloud (5 paragraphs before McLuhan quote).
Reminds me of Matrix I, when Morpheus ("shape/form") brings Neo into a computer simulation to practice Martial arts.
"Second, Sagittarius includes a weird thing called the Great Attractor. It is said to be a vast pool of subatomic particles."
~~~
In one Volume of The Trilogy: Handbook For The New Paradigm, it states that Earth will be passing through a donut-shaped (torus) energy field composed of high-energy particles.
Perhaps this may stimulate brain activity.