I was raised under the influence of the 'Women's Liberation' movement. In this presentation from Planet Waves FM, I describe what I learned from feminist thought — and what I've learned about it.
Thank you for speaking honestly and openly—a man’s perspective on women and feminism is a rare thing to hear. That is a shame. How can we understand each other if we can’t hear each other? As you pointed out, it’s not your job to conform to me, I can still learn from you.
Regarding the denigration of motherhood and mothers, you are on point. Feminism is not about exalting the woman. It’s about exalting maleness in women. This is why it excludes mothers, mothering, motherhood— the telltale signature of woman, the epitome of woman. Man can have sex with anything, only a woman brings forth life - the supreme power of humanity. Birth control and abortion are key to erasing the signature of a woman. They also dilute the power of women in social contracts with men.
I wonder if the man-hating is to keep the men away and thereby prevent the cycle of birth, which affirms women’s power. Feminism frames woman only as victim, and yet teaches her to reduce her natural powers in favor of competition with men. Strong women partnered with strong men raising strong children is not part of the feminist agenda.
I loved the Adam and Eve take by “Kate’s sister.” It makes more sense than any interpretation I’ve heard. Hilarious that her viewpoints on abortion and women are probably considered radical to some today. What a badass. This was fun to listen to. Thanks again.
I agree that motherhood has been denigrated. However, if motherhood is the "epitome of woman," and I'm not interested in being a mother or raising children, am I a "real woman"?
In my view, and I think my listeners agree, women can have any role they want — without motherhood being devalued or denigrated, or men being devalued or denigrated. I would never say "epitome" -- that is not my language -- but mothering children is essential to being female as fathering them is to being male. I don't have children. Never been involved in a pregnancy. I am a man.
But, can we make a distinction between mothering children and having the biological ability to become pregnant and have a child (to use plain language)?
I considered myself a feminist until the me too movement. When I saw the way men were being attacked for everything, especially for something like patting a shoulder- which to me would be actually treating women like equals, I was completely turned off. That was when I saw the feminist movement for what it likely is (behind the scenes, not by the people who believe in it), as a way to further divide and separate us.
Copying my response posted on the page of the full program.
The Mallory Millet segment was horrendous. Do you really need to embrace utterly reactionary politics in order to grind an anti-feminist ax? So much information and disinformation. Marx did not invent the term "patriarchy," nor did he even commonly employ it. In terms of using the term in social analysis, Elizabeth Cady Stanton initiated such usage in the US in the mid-19th Century.
You confuse Engels with Marx. Engels wrote Origins of the Family, Private Property and the State, in 1884, after Marx's death. I would not stand 100% behind the book, but he made good points about the similarity between the family structure and the structure of capitalist society. Engels and Marx are not the same person at all.
Do you really think male domination was universal through history, and not an artifact of the rise of centralized states only a few thousand years ago? Evidence for the latter is pretty overwhelming. Or are you arguing that there never was male domination before "feminists" started talking about it in the Sixties? If so, why was an Equal Rights Amendment necessary?
You pose Wilhelm Reich in contrast to "Marxism." Do you not realize that Reich came out of the Marxist tradition, and in fact was a member of the German Communist Party into the '30s? Are we supposed to ignore essays such as Sex Pol and The Mass Psychology of Fascism? Reich was quite explicitly anti capitalist.
Reich was expelled from the Party because of the Party's rather uptight and repressive attitudes about sexuality, but this does not negate the very political nature of his analysis. It's not a coincidence that one of the best discussions of Reich's analysis of sexual repression was written by British libertarian socialist Maurice Brinton,https://www.marxists.org/archive/brinton/1970/irrational-politics.htm The same Brinton also wrote Bolsheviks and Workers' Control http://www.marxists.org/archive/brinton/1970/workers-control/ about how the "Communist" Party under Lenin's totalitarian control proceeded to implement total control of Russian (and then USSR) society, doing away with attempts to actually implement socialism and direct control of social resources by society as a whole.
Mallory Millet pushes notions such as "cultural Marxism," commonly used by right wing analysts, utterly wrong in the context used, as the people they criticize are actually post modernists such as Foucault. They fundamentally disagree with Marx on such matters as the very idea of a systemic view of society and history, arguing against any systemic analysis. "Marxism" simply becomes "something i don't like." Mallory Millet puts forth NOW as a "Marxist" organization. What claptrap! It was dedicated to preserving the capitalist status quo and the corporate ladder,wishing only to open it more to striving women.
Mallory Millet opposes not only abortion, but the entire sexual revolution of the Sixties. Eric, are you now turning against that revolution, in an effort to attack "feminism"? Do you think sexual intercourse should be limited to married heterosexual couples? I'm afraid i see you embracing a lot of reaction and confusion here.
I see a lot of confusion and reaction too, but I don't see Eric embracing the idea that sexual intercourse should be limited to married heterosexual couples. Quite the opposite.
In art school I had a professor who would regularly come up behind me and put his hand around my waist while he commented on my work. It made me uncomfortable. Did i ever say anything to him directly? No. Was it a terrible offense? Not really. He was fired during the me too purging. I’m not trying to say he deserved it. But what is going on there? Are our expectations of others too high? If I, as a young woman, had been taught to truly honor and respect my body and my limits would I have felt comfortable enough to say something? And what about him? This is where it gets so tricky, right. Because what’s uncomfortable to one is no big deal to someone else. My midwife asks permission before ever placing her hands on her clients during an exam because you never know where someone is at. I think me too was ridiculous, but isn’t there something to take away? The need to reconnect to the part of ourselves that can walk around the world and recognize the divine that lives in every body. To honor and respect that, woman or man. Or maybe I just need to lighten up.
AB, I would count that as inappropriate touching. However, there is a way to handle it. If you had slipped on brass knuckles and broke his jaw, that would not be appropriate. Speaking to him privately about it would be appropriate, and you would then be engaging the topic. The discussion would be a firm "Don't touch me" and no more. Had a few women done that, he still might have his career. He did it because, from experience, he knew he could.
Thank you for speaking honestly and openly—a man’s perspective on women and feminism is a rare thing to hear. That is a shame. How can we understand each other if we can’t hear each other? As you pointed out, it’s not your job to conform to me, I can still learn from you.
Regarding the denigration of motherhood and mothers, you are on point. Feminism is not about exalting the woman. It’s about exalting maleness in women. This is why it excludes mothers, mothering, motherhood— the telltale signature of woman, the epitome of woman. Man can have sex with anything, only a woman brings forth life - the supreme power of humanity. Birth control and abortion are key to erasing the signature of a woman. They also dilute the power of women in social contracts with men.
I wonder if the man-hating is to keep the men away and thereby prevent the cycle of birth, which affirms women’s power. Feminism frames woman only as victim, and yet teaches her to reduce her natural powers in favor of competition with men. Strong women partnered with strong men raising strong children is not part of the feminist agenda.
I loved the Adam and Eve take by “Kate’s sister.” It makes more sense than any interpretation I’ve heard. Hilarious that her viewpoints on abortion and women are probably considered radical to some today. What a badass. This was fun to listen to. Thanks again.
hi Mary -- good to hear from you...
I agree that motherhood has been denigrated. However, if motherhood is the "epitome of woman," and I'm not interested in being a mother or raising children, am I a "real woman"?
In my view, and I think my listeners agree, women can have any role they want — without motherhood being devalued or denigrated, or men being devalued or denigrated. I would never say "epitome" -- that is not my language -- but mothering children is essential to being female as fathering them is to being male. I don't have children. Never been involved in a pregnancy. I am a man.
Thanks, Eric. I agree with what you say here, essentially :)
But, can we make a distinction between mothering children and having the biological ability to become pregnant and have a child (to use plain language)?
I have never created a pregnancy; I am a father to thousands.
Nicely said!
Is a flower whose seeds never germinate and grow into a new plant still a real flower? Of course!
I considered myself a feminist until the me too movement. When I saw the way men were being attacked for everything, especially for something like patting a shoulder- which to me would be actually treating women like equals, I was completely turned off. That was when I saw the feminist movement for what it likely is (behind the scenes, not by the people who believe in it), as a way to further divide and separate us.
Enough said
https://planetwaves.net/bad-moon-rising-wicked-game-eric-francis-coppolino/
Copying my response posted on the page of the full program.
The Mallory Millet segment was horrendous. Do you really need to embrace utterly reactionary politics in order to grind an anti-feminist ax? So much information and disinformation. Marx did not invent the term "patriarchy," nor did he even commonly employ it. In terms of using the term in social analysis, Elizabeth Cady Stanton initiated such usage in the US in the mid-19th Century.
You confuse Engels with Marx. Engels wrote Origins of the Family, Private Property and the State, in 1884, after Marx's death. I would not stand 100% behind the book, but he made good points about the similarity between the family structure and the structure of capitalist society. Engels and Marx are not the same person at all.
Do you really think male domination was universal through history, and not an artifact of the rise of centralized states only a few thousand years ago? Evidence for the latter is pretty overwhelming. Or are you arguing that there never was male domination before "feminists" started talking about it in the Sixties? If so, why was an Equal Rights Amendment necessary?
You pose Wilhelm Reich in contrast to "Marxism." Do you not realize that Reich came out of the Marxist tradition, and in fact was a member of the German Communist Party into the '30s? Are we supposed to ignore essays such as Sex Pol and The Mass Psychology of Fascism? Reich was quite explicitly anti capitalist.
Reich was expelled from the Party because of the Party's rather uptight and repressive attitudes about sexuality, but this does not negate the very political nature of his analysis. It's not a coincidence that one of the best discussions of Reich's analysis of sexual repression was written by British libertarian socialist Maurice Brinton,https://www.marxists.org/archive/brinton/1970/irrational-politics.htm The same Brinton also wrote Bolsheviks and Workers' Control http://www.marxists.org/archive/brinton/1970/workers-control/ about how the "Communist" Party under Lenin's totalitarian control proceeded to implement total control of Russian (and then USSR) society, doing away with attempts to actually implement socialism and direct control of social resources by society as a whole.
Mallory Millet pushes notions such as "cultural Marxism," commonly used by right wing analysts, utterly wrong in the context used, as the people they criticize are actually post modernists such as Foucault. They fundamentally disagree with Marx on such matters as the very idea of a systemic view of society and history, arguing against any systemic analysis. "Marxism" simply becomes "something i don't like." Mallory Millet puts forth NOW as a "Marxist" organization. What claptrap! It was dedicated to preserving the capitalist status quo and the corporate ladder,wishing only to open it more to striving women.
Mallory Millet opposes not only abortion, but the entire sexual revolution of the Sixties. Eric, are you now turning against that revolution, in an effort to attack "feminism"? Do you think sexual intercourse should be limited to married heterosexual couples? I'm afraid i see you embracing a lot of reaction and confusion here.
😮👍🏻☝🏽
I see a lot of confusion and reaction too, but I don't see Eric embracing the idea that sexual intercourse should be limited to married heterosexual couples. Quite the opposite.
In art school I had a professor who would regularly come up behind me and put his hand around my waist while he commented on my work. It made me uncomfortable. Did i ever say anything to him directly? No. Was it a terrible offense? Not really. He was fired during the me too purging. I’m not trying to say he deserved it. But what is going on there? Are our expectations of others too high? If I, as a young woman, had been taught to truly honor and respect my body and my limits would I have felt comfortable enough to say something? And what about him? This is where it gets so tricky, right. Because what’s uncomfortable to one is no big deal to someone else. My midwife asks permission before ever placing her hands on her clients during an exam because you never know where someone is at. I think me too was ridiculous, but isn’t there something to take away? The need to reconnect to the part of ourselves that can walk around the world and recognize the divine that lives in every body. To honor and respect that, woman or man. Or maybe I just need to lighten up.
AB, I would count that as inappropriate touching. However, there is a way to handle it. If you had slipped on brass knuckles and broke his jaw, that would not be appropriate. Speaking to him privately about it would be appropriate, and you would then be engaging the topic. The discussion would be a firm "Don't touch me" and no more. Had a few women done that, he still might have his career. He did it because, from experience, he knew he could.